Wolves Put Out to Pasture
A Comprehensive Timeline of Gary DeMar's Heresy
To read our previous article providing context for this timeline, click here.
This article is extensively footnoted, and we recommend following the links to each original source. You will also find a reference key above the footnotes offering definitions of important parties and institutions.
The Timeline:
December 30, 2009: Discourse regarding Gary DeMar occurs on the Puritan Board forums where, amidst discussion of his well-known Reconstructionist theology, it is determined he was blurring the lines between partial preterism and hyper-preterism as early as 1997. Later in the discussion, Rev. Fred Greco draws attention to DeMar’s inability to defend the faith, exhorting Christians to “completely ignore and boycott” DeMar.1 [Edit: 4/10/2023: In follow up correspondence via email, Rev. Greco indicated that his original intended meaning was that full preterism should be considered a settled heresy without waiting for further discussion or claims of exegesis.]
February 24, 2013: The earliest instance of American Vision’s Statement of Faith accessible by the Wayback Machine.2 This statement affirms the general, bodily resurrection. There is no evidence that this affirmation has changed at any time since that date.
Given the presence of a board of directors, it is unclear whether DeMar has the authority to make unilateral changes to the statement of faith in his capacity as president.
As a 501(c)(3), American Vision receives donations from those under the impression that its associated works affirm its statement of faith.3 This potentially introduces questions regarding whether DeMar is using donor funds to further an agenda at odds with the organization’s purported beliefs.
September 17, 2015: On a podcast, Pastor Jeff Durbin describes in detail how he fell into full preterism, calling it deceptive and dangerous and citing Don Preston and Sam Frost as the chief influences that drove him to it (Frost has since rejected full preterism, teaching it to be heresy). Durbin also cites the book “When Shall These Things Be” by Keith Mathison as having helped him repent and leave the movement.4
January 8, 2021: Teach All Nations, a documentary by Nathan Anderson funded through and released by LOOR, features Doane and DeMar as teachers.5 Upon later becoming aware of DeMar’s heretical views, Nathan publicly rebukes DeMar.67
April 29, 2022: Deleaone Shannon (aka Chocolate Knox) appears on the King’s Hall Podcast. Shannon cites DeMar as having tremendous theological influence on him, presenting him as a father figure. Darren Doane reinforces that Shannon should learn from DeMar. Host Eric Conn agrees, calling DeMar “Uncle Gary,” stating how influential DeMar has been to him. Both Doane and Conn recommend Days of Vengeance by David Chilton, who later became a full preterist,8 as one of the best books on Revelation.9
October 27, 2022: Gary DeMar appears on the full preterist and interfaith podcast Burros of Berea where he rejects the idea of future, physically resurrected bodies. In this episode, it is also implied that Bill Evans is a full preterist.10
Host: I have one last question I ask all our guests. So, Gary, when your body takes the last breath, what is your belief, what happens?
DeMar: Well, at my funeral most people will sit around and eat a really big meal. That is a really good question. I'm, I'm, this is where 1 Thessalonians 4 comes into this whole thing, which is kind of interesting, but I believe that when you die, you go to be with the Lord and you get a new body at that time.
Host: [agreeing]
DeMar: Spirit, Spiritual body, it's interesting 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 talks about the dead and the rest of the dead, well what they have to do with that particular passage, now remember I'm still kind of working through...some of these things and that's one of them. They have to assume that's the dead body in the ground because that event is future. So when you die, everybody's told, they're supposed to, gonna go to Heaven but sometime in the future you get this, your body, out of the grave.
Host: [agreeing]
DeMar: Comes up and it's renewed and so forth and so on. Now that doesn't make sense with 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 because you have to assume that the dead there refer to dead bodies rather than "the dead", dead people. And that's not an unusual interpretation either, that when you die, you get a brand new, brand new body.
Host: [agreeing]
DeMar: I'm sure a lot of people will say Gary DeMar is a heretic, but that's okay because I'm old enough it doesn't really matter.
Host: You've heard it all before.
Other Host: He's been a heretic for a long time.
December 7, 2022: Sam Frost, the author of “Why I Left Full Preterism” and influential figure in reformed eschatology, confirms that Bill Evans is a full preterist while writing extensively on DeMar’s heresy.11
December 27, 2022: In a post on social media about the success of American Vision, DeMar expresses his debt to James Jordan for his hermeneutics and exegesis: “When I get stuck on a passage, I would often call Jim for his perspective. I’ve never been disappointed.”1213
January 1, 2023: The Fight Laugh Feast Network publishes a 10-part series with DeMar on Eschatology featuring Gabriel Rench, Deleaone Shannon, and Pastor Toby Sumpter. This content is paywalled and available to subscribers only.
Jan 5, 2023: Full preterist podcast Burros of Berea has a round-table at Berean Bible Church, a full preterist church,14 with DeMar present as a guest. DeMar neither repudiates full preterism nor offers any rebuke to his hosts for their false doctrine, rather he engages in favorable discussion regarding their eschatology.1516 It is also worth noting that some of the guests at the round-table helped author the full preterist response to When Shall These Things Be titled “House Divided: Bridging the Gap in Reformed Eschatology.”
January 23, 2023: On an episode of CrossPolitic, Doane advocates DeMar’s full preterist interpretations with little pushback from Sumpter, Shannon, or Rench.17
Doane: But I see, I see preterism and what Gary DeMar is talking about. I think that’s going to be a big thing in the next four or five years because I think, I think we have a hermeneutical challenge right now and you have so many people who are coming to the Reformed faith who are studying, who are listening, who are saying “I understand what’s going on here,” they’re saying “I’ve got some questions though because when I follow this, the math isn’t adding up.” And so I’m not a full preterist, unless a full preterist is defined by what Joshua says that everything was promised, that was ever promised, that was ever going to be promised, that was to be promised from Abraham and all that. Everything came to be for Israel. Whatever kind of full preterism that is on things being fulfilled, I’m that kind of Christian. So whatever that means, that’s what I am.
Later, during the “backstage” segment of the episode, Doane, Shannon, and Rench explore whether DeMar is becoming a full preterist. In this segment, Doane defends DeMar’s refusal to affirm orthodox doctrine and Shannon and Doane sympathize with the deconstruction of orthodox views:
January 5, 2023: In responding to Sam Frost’s video “What About Gary DeMar,” admitted full preterists Michael Sullivan and Don Preston claim that DeMar is using their own arguments in his discourse and offer admiration for his cause.18
In particular, they cite the argument that Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4 are exegetical parallels, taking the preterist interpretation of Matthew 24 and thus requiring a similar interpretation for 1 Thessalonians 4, which concerns the resurrection of the dead. Not insignificantly, 1 Thessalonians 4 is the passage cited by DeMar in his October 27 comments against the resurrection of the body.
Further, the fact that DeMar would not become an open full preterist previously bothered Sullivan, but here he opines that DeMar is doing important work by reclaiming the right of reformed Christians to question the creeds.
February 1, 2023: The Fight Laugh Feast Network publishes DeMar's 10-part teaching series on God and Government.
March 2, 2023: An open letter to DeMar is published on Andrew Sandlin’s blog. The letter pleads with him regarding the “doctrinal transitioning that [they] are witnessing” and cites two attempts in prior months to contact him privately. The authors of the letter lament DeMar’s inability to clearly affirm basic doctrinal positions essential to the faith and call for clarity. The letter also notes that the Statement of Faith of DeMar’s own American Vision ascribes to the doctrines he refuses to clearly affirm. Signers of the letter include, among others, Doug Wilson, Jeff Durbin, James White, and Sam Frost.19
“Due to certain statements you made publicly on Facebook recently, Ken Gentry asked you if you would affirm three simple, basic doctrinal positions. These questions have intentionally been kept limited and simple in order to avoid entangling interaction with the many variations within and permutations of Full Preterism (aka Consistent Preterism; aka Covenant Preterism; aka Hyperpreterism).
Furthermore, they have also been confined to doctrines clearly declared in the American Vision Statement of Faith. Those simple yes-or-no questions are now simplified and clarified even more:
1. Do you believe in a future bodily, glorious return of Christ?
2. Do you believe in a future physical, general resurrection of the dead?
3. Do you believe history will end with the Final Judgment of all men?
To refuse to affirm the future, physical resurrection, the final judgment of the righteous and the unrighteous, and the tactile reality of the eternal state is to refuse to affirm critical elements of the Christian faith. To contradict these doctrines is not merely to contradict a few specific biblical texts; it is to contradict indispensable aspects of the Christian faith and the biblical worldview. As blunt as it might sound, it is to strike at crucial aspects in the very heart of the Christian faith.”
March 3, 2023: In a post on social media about meeting Darren Doane for dinner, DeMar responds to the open letter by criticizing “letters making demands,” instead advocating for “adult Christian men discussing all types of eschatological questions,” referring to his dinner with Doane. DeMar says in his post that “Apparently, this approach scares some people.” Doane also shared this post.20
March 5, 2023: Full preterist Bill Evans makes a post which DeMar later pins to his Facebook page.21
March 6, 2023: DeMar releases his first response to the open letter on his own podcast.22
March 6, 2023: Gabe Rench of FLF and CrossPolitic share DeMar’s first response podcast episode.23
March 9, 2023: Pastor Joseph Spurgeon, a podcaster whose show is hosted on the Fight Laugh Feast Network, rebukes Gary DeMar for his views and calls his behavior wicked, drawing attention to his word games and association with hyper-preterists.24
March 11, 2023: Doane defends DeMar on social media, drawing a false equivalency between DeMar’s refusal to affirm the creeds and disagreement by ministers on which verses do or don’t make the list of proof-texts for those creeds.25
March 13, 2023: Pastor Doug Wilson releases an article on DeMar, calling for answers but stating he owes DeMar too much to “[throw] rocks at him personally.”26
March 14, 2023: Through American Vision, DeMar releases an article where he states that he has not changed his beliefs for the last 25 years.27
March 14, 2023: In the context of questioning the creeds, DeMar shares a quote from John Stott defending the reforming of “long-standing evangelical traditions.”28
March 15, 2023: DeMar releases his fifth and final response to Sandlin’s open letter on his podcast.29
March 17, 2023: In a post on social media, Doane defends DeMar’s “questions” by mocking certainty in the general, bodily resurrection despite claiming to hold to the creeds himself.30
March 17, 2023: Pastor Sumpter releases an article attempting to address DeMar, but maintains uncertainty about what DeMar actually believes. Sumpter also compares DeMar’s potential heresy to different convictions on head coverings and exclusive psalmody, criticizing divisiveness over different convictions on the matter more so than the heresy itself.31
“Now I know that some folks have been stubbornly divisive over issues like this. I can imagine churches where someone gets a bee in their bonnet about making all the women wear head coverings or exclusive psalm singing or hyper-preterism. And being divisive, stirring up dissension and strife over such matters or teaching false doctrine is not according to the gospel. In such cases, the leaders of the church must protect the flock up to and including excommunication if necessary. But it’s striking that even Paul had different tacks for different Judaizers. He straight up implied that anyone who taught their doctrine should be damned to Hell (Gal. 1:8-9) and wished that some of them would get sloppy with their scalpels (Gal. 5:12), and then in another place references his good working relationship with someone of the “circumcision party” (Col. 4:11). It’s noteworthy that he says that, all while still generally considering those folks “unruly and vain talkers and deceivers” (Tit. 1:10). Paul thought well of at least one guy (“a fellow worker unto the Kingdom”) who apparently was associated with a teaching that had often functioned as “another gospel.” Go figure that one out.”
March 18, 2023: Sandlin writes a follow-up article titled “Gary DeMar’s Heretical Eschatology: What Did I Know, and When Did I Know It?” In the article, Sandlin states that DeMar has in fact held his heretical views for 25 years, confirming through anecdote what DeMar admitted in his own article published on March 14th.
March 18, 2023: Pastor Michael Foster states in a post on social media that DeMar is a heretic if he rejects “a confessional or creedal understanding of the second coming or bodily resurrection.”32
March 21, 2023: When confronted about his unwillingness to remove DeMar from Fight Laugh Feast’s Facebook group (where DeMar was actively arguing his heretical views), Pastor Sumpter, rather than attempting to deny that DeMar is arguing heretical views, makes a blasphemous comment to defend keeping DeMar in the group:33
“…if Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, why did he continue to allow him to be among his disciples and then even serve him the Lord’s supper?”
March 22, 2023: Pastor Foster shares an email he sent to DeMar’s elders expressing great concern, accusing DeMar of being coy, and implying his friendliness to heretical views.34
March 22, 2023: Pastor Sumpter releases an article characterizing those online who rebuke DeMar’s heresy as “autistic reformed bros.” In contradiction to his previous article, Sumpter writes as though understanding what DeMar believes, specifically citing DeMar’s belief in “new spiritual bodies.” Rather than maintaining that this view is condemnable, Sumpter moves the goalpost, merely implying they will need time to consider these views. Sumpter also restructures the narrative, implying that those shouting “wolf” were taking issue with his intention to look into it at all rather than with how long the wolf was known—and that he was still out ravaging the pasture.
“And then Gary DeMar comes along and says that he thinks people get their new spiritual bodies when they die and go to heaven, and he’s not sure which texts describe the final coming of Christ in glory and the final judgment, and we said, “hmmm, that’s not good. We need to look into that.” And a bunch of folks said, Quid agis? Which is Latin for: Que pasa?”
March 27, 2023: Fight Laugh Feast Network Podcast “The Comedian Next Door” releases an episode titled “If You Want to Be a Joke,” comparing critics of DeMar to atheists, flat-earthers, postmodernists, and deconstructionists.35
March 28, 2023: Pastor Sumpter posts in the Fight Laugh Feast Facebook group that FLF has formally approached the Christ Church Elders for counsel. Sumpter states that, after an intended meeting is had between DeMar and pastors at Christ Church, further counsel will be given to FLF. In the meantime, Christ Church advises FLF to maintain the status quo, prompting FLF to take no action to remove DeMar’s content from the network or otherwise censure him.36
March 30, 2023: Pastor Spurgeon releases an “open letter” to Fight Laugh Feast and DeMar, drawing attention to his deceptiveness, his diminishment of the Christian’s hope, and calling on Fight Laugh Feast to prevent further danger to souls in the church.37
Conclusion:
Our goal in publishing this timeline is to help those seeking to make an honest judgment about the situation. We pray it aids the churches and media organizations responsible for shepherding DeMar and distributing his teachings as they navigate proper courses of action.
We hope the session at Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA) will follow through with bringing formal charges against DeMar. We believe Canon Press, CrossPolitic, and the Fight Laugh Feast Network have responsibilities to remove DeMar's teachings, cease promoting him, and unequivocally distance themselves from his heresy, through both words and actions, in order to protect the many sheep who observe and mirror their speech and associations.
Reference Key:
CrossPolitic is a podcast on the Fight Laugh Feast Network aimed at engaging “the taboo formula of faith, culture, and politics to bring the clarity of the gospel into middle America” and is described as “a community of Christians who desire to see the Lordship of Christ in every corner of our culture, reigning over every politician, and changing every individual for our good and His glory.”
The Fight Laugh Feast Network (FLF) is a podcast coalition platforming shows “proclaiming the Lordship of Jesus Christ over all of life.” FLF hosts CrossPolitic as well as podcasts by Darren Doane and Deleaone Shannon.
Gary DeMar is a heretic who rejects a future physical return of Jesus Christ and a future physical, bodily resurrection of all believers. He is currently President of American Vision, a nonprofit organization that promotes Christian Reconstructionism. DeMar graduated with a Master of Divinity in 1979 from Reformed Theological Seminary where he studied under Greg Bahnsen. DeMar is a member in good standing at Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA) in Powder Springs, Georgia.
Darren Doane is a filmmaker and frequent guest on CrossPolitic. He has a longtime friendship with the CrossPolitic hosts and is well-known among the show’s fans. Doane is a member in good standing at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho.
Gabriel Rench is a deacon at King’s Cross Church in Moscow (a church recently particularized from Christ Church) and a co-host of CrossPolitic. He is the administrator of the Fight, Laugh, Feast Network Facebook group “Fight, Laugh, Feast, Family Party.”
Toby Sumpter is the lead pastor of King’s Cross Church, a pastor pro tem at Christ Church, and a co-host of CrossPolitic. Sumpter has a Master of Arts in Theological Studies from Erskine Theological Seminary.
Deleaone “Chocolate Knox” Shannon is a co-host of CrossPolitic. He attended Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
Excellent work here.
FPs destroy immovable pillars with their obsession. Rather than accept the tried and true "now but not yet" hermeneutic, they dispense with the general resurrection, the resurrection body, the final judgement, the renovation of the cosmos, eternal punishment, and in some cases the hypostatic union is done away with as some reject that Christ right now dwells in glorified human flesh. All because they cling to the notion that things that orthodoxy teaches as partially fulfilled are, in their view, absolutely and finally fulfilled. It's an irrational obsession.